04.06.2007, 12:22
Moment ...deiner ansicht waren diese Brüder Kyrill und Methodius was nun Griechen oder Bulgaren ...
Sie kamen eindeutig aus Makedonien SOLUN ..daher schon mal aus dem gebiet Makedonien...was bis dahin nichts mit Griechenland zu tun hatte..
da wir aber wissen das in der region nicht nur Makedoner lebten , ist es nicht gerade einfach zu behaubten sie währen makedoner ...doch man sieht das sie sich auf alte-slavische linguistig orientierten.
..wen es sich um griechen gehandelt hätte hätten sie wahrscheinlich die griechische schrift und sprache in fast allen europäischen länder verbreidet.
If the ancient Macedonians spoke Greek as the modern Greeks claim, then wouldn't there be some remnants of the ancient Greek language still being spoken in some remote parts of Macedonia? Yes there would be! But in fact there is NONE.
There are some of you who, dispute the evidence presented by the Dura-Europos inscriptions, offer your own counter arguments such as "if there was a Macedonian language spoken by Alexander's soldiers in Dura-Europos, how come then there are no inscriptions found inside the boundaries of modern Greece?" The answer to this question is unfortunately obvious. Any artifacts or inscriptions found in the Greek occupied territory that do not aid the Greek cause or agree with Greek policies towards Macedonia are simply hidden from the public or destroyed. If you don't believe me ask yourselves this question. After 1400 years of Slav culture why is there not a single inscription or artifact found in Greece that bears the Macedonian language? The Greeks admit to the existence of the brothers Kiril and Methodi and yet have removed everything that is representative of them. They have destroyed all books and have erased all inscriptions including those from the gravestones in Macedonian cemeteries in order to eradicate everything that is Macedonian. That being said, then why should I trust the Greeks to tell the truth about discoveries of ancient inscriptions that bear the Macedonian language, when they lie about the existence of more modern Macedonian inscriptions that I clearly know exist?
..............................................................................
zu den Bulgaren ...lesen bitte.
DIE GESCHICHTE UNSERER WELT 1926 - WELLS
SEITE 223
"Auch die Bulgaren sind ein türkisches Volk, haben aber eine arische* sprache angenommen."
* die Makedonische ist damit gemeint.
15th C.
I remember the great subordination under which the Turk holds the emperor in Constantinople and all the Greeks, Macedonians and Bulgarians....As I said earlier, there are many Christians who are forced to serve the Turk, such as Greeks, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Albanians, Esclavinians, Rasians and Serbians... Bertrand de la Brocuiere, Putovanje preko mora, Beograd 1950, p.134-135, 140-141.
1461-1462 (?)
When the enemy forces are battered, no one doubts that the whole of Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, Greece or Attica and the Peloponnese will return to the faithful....Inspired by this example the Thessalians, the Greeks, the Poloponnesians, the Epirans and the Macedonians will all rebel and will win ... Jovan Radonic, Gjurac Kastriot Skenderbeg i Arbanija u XV veku - Spomenik XCV (1942), p. 128-129.
August 8th, 1470.
The Sultan stopped and spent the night ...in afield that represented the Macedonian border...The River Vardar is nearby, which flows through Macedonia...of which some are Greeks, others Macedonians, Wallachs and even Italians, as well as other nations....Greeks and Macedonians live there... Gio Mario degli Angiolelo, A. Matkovski i P. Angelkova, Nekolku kratki patopisi za Makedonija, Glasnik na INI, VXI/1 (1972), p. 246-247.
1557
...It is located in Thessaly, which borders on Macedonia, where the plague has reduced much of the population... Nbljudeni na mnozhestvo redki i zabelezhitelni neshta, videni v Grcija, Azija, Judea, Egipet, Arabia i drugi chuzhdi strani ot Pierre Belon d'Man, Sofia 1953, p.132-133; Frenski patepisi za Balkanite, XV-XVIII v. Sofia 1975, p. 95-98.
1566
...called Jakov; I laboured for much time and many years for this work (in order to contribute) to the holy books. I came out of Macedonia, my fatherland, and I entered.... Lj. Stojanovich, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi I, p. 203-204.
1579
German ruler Rudolph II to the Pope: ..the deliverer of this letter, don Petar Crnovic...born in Salonika and the other parts of Macedonia... A. Theiner, Vitera monumenta Slavorum meridionalium illustrantia. II. Zagrabiae 1875, p. 70.
1589
Gavril, Archbishop of Ohrid to Archduke Ferdinand of Habsburg: ...the Turk, who from day to day has pursued and blackmailed us and our ancestors ....in the whole of Macedonia, Greece and the nearby countries...then among our countries we have Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia, Oltenia... Landesregierungsarchive - Innsbruck, VI 50.
-----------------------------
hier wird fersucht die Makedoner als Bulgaren darzustellen ..ich habe genug Material um all das zu wiederlegen ....
nur verstehe ich jetzt nicht warum die Neu-Griechen vom eigendlichen Thema abweichen ..es geht hier um die klarstellung das es in der Antike unterschiede zwischen den Makedoner und den Griechen oder Hellenen oder Greaco...hellas.!!!!..eigendlich gab es überhaubt keine bezeichnung ..
man sagt heute nur es währen alle Griechen..... ?
zu deinem link von oben ...
http://upload5.postimage.org/278072/photo_hosting.html
1. First of all, Gligorov and Veselinov are not historians, but politicians. History should not be written by politicians but should be left to the historians. Politics with politicants are like Babilon tower,there is everything, from vegetarians to lesbians. Its impossible to satisfy all of them!
2. The Macedonian historians do not support the claim that today's Macedonians are "Slavs" who came in the 6th century. The latest book "THE DESCENDANTS OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT OF MACEDON - The arguments and evidence that today's Macedonians are descendants of the ancient Macedonians", puts an end to the "Slav" claim.
3. This "Slav" claim was an old communistic propaganda influenced by Russia and Yugoslavia during the period while Macedonia was part of communist Yugoslavia (1945-1991) and both Gligorov and Veselinov were tough this line of the official then history, dictated by Slav Russia and Serbia (Yugoslavia). As stated this "political history" is outdated and is ongoing replacement.
4. Historical evidence (avoided by Gligorov and Veselinov of the communist school) shows that the Macedonians have called themselves "Macedonians" in every century since Alexander, both before and after the coming of the Slavs in Macedonia in the 6th century. It is the Slavs that assimilated into the Macedonians, not wise-versa, and the Macedonians continued to call themselves what they are - Macedonians.
Links.
1. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gate.net/~mango/18thC_Russian_Docs.htm">http://www.gate.net/~mango/18thC_Russian_Docs.htm</a><!-- m -->
2. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gate.net/~mango/DocsByz.htm">http://www.gate.net/~mango/DocsByz.htm</a><!-- m -->
3. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.maknews.com/forum/assets/imperial_war_museum/">http://www.maknews.com/forum/assets/imp ... ar_museum/</a><!-- m -->
4. EDEN OD NAJDOBRITE DOKUMENTI ZA MAKEDONSKI NACIONALEN IDENTITET PRED 1913:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.maknews.com/forum/assets/immigration_1909/immigration_1909.html">http://www.maknews.com/forum/assets/imm ... _1909.html</a><!-- m -->
5. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gate.net/~mango/MK_language_struggle.htm">http://www.gate.net/~mango/MK_language_struggle.htm</a><!-- m -->
6. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/Documents.html">http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Conci ... ments.html</a><!-- m -->
Liebe Griechen sobald Quintus-Fabius ..nach langen Reserchen doch zu der These Kommt das Makedoner keine Griechen sind und keine Bulgaren ..bleibt seine auffasung die gleiche ,das es immer wieder zu vermischungen der Völker gab und niemand das alleinige recht auf die antike Geschichte hatt...Der heutige streit ist demnach lächerlich..
Die Republik Makedonien besinnt sich nicht nach der Antike sonder des Letzten Jahrhundert ..und genau da hatt sich eine Makedonisches Nationalbewustsein gebildet...
Die Frage, wie „griechisch“ die antiken Makedonen waren, ist auch heute nicht ohne politische Brisanz. Das Gebiet war bereits in der Jungsteinzeit besiedelt. Nach der griechischen Auffassung sollen die Makedonen mit den Nordwestgriechen um 1200 v. Chr. in dieses Gebiet eingewandert sein. Einige antike Historiker beschreiben die Makedonen als eine Mischbevölkerung aus Phrygern, Thrakern und Illyrern, die nicht als ein griechischer Stamm eingewandert sein sollen, doch sind die meisten modernen Forscher heute der Ansicht, dass die Makedonen als ein griechischer Stamm anzusehen seien, der sich allerdings aufgrund enger Kontakte zu Thrakern und Illyrern stark von den übrigen Griechen unterschieden habe.Für die Griechen waren die Makedoner Barbaren , also doch keine Griechen.
Es gibt 100 verschiedene auffassungen ..
Sie kamen eindeutig aus Makedonien SOLUN ..daher schon mal aus dem gebiet Makedonien...was bis dahin nichts mit Griechenland zu tun hatte..
da wir aber wissen das in der region nicht nur Makedoner lebten , ist es nicht gerade einfach zu behaubten sie währen makedoner ...doch man sieht das sie sich auf alte-slavische linguistig orientierten.
..wen es sich um griechen gehandelt hätte hätten sie wahrscheinlich die griechische schrift und sprache in fast allen europäischen länder verbreidet.
If the ancient Macedonians spoke Greek as the modern Greeks claim, then wouldn't there be some remnants of the ancient Greek language still being spoken in some remote parts of Macedonia? Yes there would be! But in fact there is NONE.
There are some of you who, dispute the evidence presented by the Dura-Europos inscriptions, offer your own counter arguments such as "if there was a Macedonian language spoken by Alexander's soldiers in Dura-Europos, how come then there are no inscriptions found inside the boundaries of modern Greece?" The answer to this question is unfortunately obvious. Any artifacts or inscriptions found in the Greek occupied territory that do not aid the Greek cause or agree with Greek policies towards Macedonia are simply hidden from the public or destroyed. If you don't believe me ask yourselves this question. After 1400 years of Slav culture why is there not a single inscription or artifact found in Greece that bears the Macedonian language? The Greeks admit to the existence of the brothers Kiril and Methodi and yet have removed everything that is representative of them. They have destroyed all books and have erased all inscriptions including those from the gravestones in Macedonian cemeteries in order to eradicate everything that is Macedonian. That being said, then why should I trust the Greeks to tell the truth about discoveries of ancient inscriptions that bear the Macedonian language, when they lie about the existence of more modern Macedonian inscriptions that I clearly know exist?
..............................................................................
zu den Bulgaren ...lesen bitte.
DIE GESCHICHTE UNSERER WELT 1926 - WELLS
SEITE 223
"Auch die Bulgaren sind ein türkisches Volk, haben aber eine arische* sprache angenommen."
* die Makedonische ist damit gemeint.
15th C.
I remember the great subordination under which the Turk holds the emperor in Constantinople and all the Greeks, Macedonians and Bulgarians....As I said earlier, there are many Christians who are forced to serve the Turk, such as Greeks, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Albanians, Esclavinians, Rasians and Serbians... Bertrand de la Brocuiere, Putovanje preko mora, Beograd 1950, p.134-135, 140-141.
1461-1462 (?)
When the enemy forces are battered, no one doubts that the whole of Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, Greece or Attica and the Peloponnese will return to the faithful....Inspired by this example the Thessalians, the Greeks, the Poloponnesians, the Epirans and the Macedonians will all rebel and will win ... Jovan Radonic, Gjurac Kastriot Skenderbeg i Arbanija u XV veku - Spomenik XCV (1942), p. 128-129.
August 8th, 1470.
The Sultan stopped and spent the night ...in afield that represented the Macedonian border...The River Vardar is nearby, which flows through Macedonia...of which some are Greeks, others Macedonians, Wallachs and even Italians, as well as other nations....Greeks and Macedonians live there... Gio Mario degli Angiolelo, A. Matkovski i P. Angelkova, Nekolku kratki patopisi za Makedonija, Glasnik na INI, VXI/1 (1972), p. 246-247.
1557
...It is located in Thessaly, which borders on Macedonia, where the plague has reduced much of the population... Nbljudeni na mnozhestvo redki i zabelezhitelni neshta, videni v Grcija, Azija, Judea, Egipet, Arabia i drugi chuzhdi strani ot Pierre Belon d'Man, Sofia 1953, p.132-133; Frenski patepisi za Balkanite, XV-XVIII v. Sofia 1975, p. 95-98.
1566
...called Jakov; I laboured for much time and many years for this work (in order to contribute) to the holy books. I came out of Macedonia, my fatherland, and I entered.... Lj. Stojanovich, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi I, p. 203-204.
1579
German ruler Rudolph II to the Pope: ..the deliverer of this letter, don Petar Crnovic...born in Salonika and the other parts of Macedonia... A. Theiner, Vitera monumenta Slavorum meridionalium illustrantia. II. Zagrabiae 1875, p. 70.
1589
Gavril, Archbishop of Ohrid to Archduke Ferdinand of Habsburg: ...the Turk, who from day to day has pursued and blackmailed us and our ancestors ....in the whole of Macedonia, Greece and the nearby countries...then among our countries we have Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia, Oltenia... Landesregierungsarchive - Innsbruck, VI 50.
-----------------------------
hier wird fersucht die Makedoner als Bulgaren darzustellen ..ich habe genug Material um all das zu wiederlegen ....
nur verstehe ich jetzt nicht warum die Neu-Griechen vom eigendlichen Thema abweichen ..es geht hier um die klarstellung das es in der Antike unterschiede zwischen den Makedoner und den Griechen oder Hellenen oder Greaco...hellas.!!!!..eigendlich gab es überhaubt keine bezeichnung ..
man sagt heute nur es währen alle Griechen..... ?
zu deinem link von oben ...
http://upload5.postimage.org/278072/photo_hosting.html
1. First of all, Gligorov and Veselinov are not historians, but politicians. History should not be written by politicians but should be left to the historians. Politics with politicants are like Babilon tower,there is everything, from vegetarians to lesbians. Its impossible to satisfy all of them!
2. The Macedonian historians do not support the claim that today's Macedonians are "Slavs" who came in the 6th century. The latest book "THE DESCENDANTS OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT OF MACEDON - The arguments and evidence that today's Macedonians are descendants of the ancient Macedonians", puts an end to the "Slav" claim.
3. This "Slav" claim was an old communistic propaganda influenced by Russia and Yugoslavia during the period while Macedonia was part of communist Yugoslavia (1945-1991) and both Gligorov and Veselinov were tough this line of the official then history, dictated by Slav Russia and Serbia (Yugoslavia). As stated this "political history" is outdated and is ongoing replacement.
4. Historical evidence (avoided by Gligorov and Veselinov of the communist school) shows that the Macedonians have called themselves "Macedonians" in every century since Alexander, both before and after the coming of the Slavs in Macedonia in the 6th century. It is the Slavs that assimilated into the Macedonians, not wise-versa, and the Macedonians continued to call themselves what they are - Macedonians.
Links.
1. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gate.net/~mango/18thC_Russian_Docs.htm">http://www.gate.net/~mango/18thC_Russian_Docs.htm</a><!-- m -->
2. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gate.net/~mango/DocsByz.htm">http://www.gate.net/~mango/DocsByz.htm</a><!-- m -->
3. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.maknews.com/forum/assets/imperial_war_museum/">http://www.maknews.com/forum/assets/imp ... ar_museum/</a><!-- m -->
4. EDEN OD NAJDOBRITE DOKUMENTI ZA MAKEDONSKI NACIONALEN IDENTITET PRED 1913:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.maknews.com/forum/assets/immigration_1909/immigration_1909.html">http://www.maknews.com/forum/assets/imm ... _1909.html</a><!-- m -->
5. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gate.net/~mango/MK_language_struggle.htm">http://www.gate.net/~mango/MK_language_struggle.htm</a><!-- m -->
6. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/Documents.html">http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Conci ... ments.html</a><!-- m -->
Liebe Griechen sobald Quintus-Fabius ..nach langen Reserchen doch zu der These Kommt das Makedoner keine Griechen sind und keine Bulgaren ..bleibt seine auffasung die gleiche ,das es immer wieder zu vermischungen der Völker gab und niemand das alleinige recht auf die antike Geschichte hatt...Der heutige streit ist demnach lächerlich..
Die Republik Makedonien besinnt sich nicht nach der Antike sonder des Letzten Jahrhundert ..und genau da hatt sich eine Makedonisches Nationalbewustsein gebildet...
Die Frage, wie „griechisch“ die antiken Makedonen waren, ist auch heute nicht ohne politische Brisanz. Das Gebiet war bereits in der Jungsteinzeit besiedelt. Nach der griechischen Auffassung sollen die Makedonen mit den Nordwestgriechen um 1200 v. Chr. in dieses Gebiet eingewandert sein. Einige antike Historiker beschreiben die Makedonen als eine Mischbevölkerung aus Phrygern, Thrakern und Illyrern, die nicht als ein griechischer Stamm eingewandert sein sollen, doch sind die meisten modernen Forscher heute der Ansicht, dass die Makedonen als ein griechischer Stamm anzusehen seien, der sich allerdings aufgrund enger Kontakte zu Thrakern und Illyrern stark von den übrigen Griechen unterschieden habe.Für die Griechen waren die Makedoner Barbaren , also doch keine Griechen.
Es gibt 100 verschiedene auffassungen ..