Wer mit Pandoras Box spielt sollte bereit sein...
ich muss und darf hier alles on topic einsetzen..(da es zu dem oben gennanten keinen link gibt...)
The word 'Makednos' has the meaning of long, tall, and highlander. Some archaeologists believe that the Macedonians were called so because they were tall. Nowadays the meaning of 'highlander' is more prevalent. This is because Macedonians used to live early in prehistoric times in the mountains of Vermio in Greece.
The Greek words Macetia (Gk: MAKETIA) and Macetae (Gk: MAKETAI) were also used in early times to identify Macedonia and the Macedonians.
The biblical Hettieim or Kitim and Kitiaioi originate from Maketia and Maketai.
Hesiod in Theogonia, written in the middles of 8th century BC, claimed that Makednos and Magnes who used to live in the lands around mountain Olympus and Pieria were sons of Zeus and Thyias, daughter of Deukalion. This suggests that the other Greeks of that time believed that the Macedonians and Magnetes belonged to the same tribe (a Hellenic one).
Hellanikos, who lived at the time of Herodotus, considered Macedon son of Aeolos. Apollodoros considered Macedon son of Lykaon and thus grandson of the king of Argos Pelasgos and Lykaon king of Arcadians whose 50 sons became leaders of various greek tribes. On the other hand Aelianos considered Lykaon, King of Emathia and Pindos, son of Macedon.
Aeschylus, in Iketidai, had the king of Argos Pelasgos boasting that his family was ruling the lands beyond Pindos and Dodoni up to river Strymon (that is including Macedonia, the one part of modern day Greece).
Q4) The Macedonian state until the end of the 6th century BC.
The Macedonians until the 6th century BC lived isolated from the other Greeks a pastoral life known as transhumant pastoralism moving their herds to the mountain pastures in the spring and to the lowland pastures in the winter (see N. G. L. Hammond).
Their language was affected by the way of their life and was not as linguistically developed as that of Athens. Macedonians built their houses on hilltop and well-protected areas and retained the lifestyle of the original Dorians possibly emphasized by the need of intermittent wars needed to preserve their own existence.
A German historian and linguist, O. Hoffmann, considered Macedonians a greek tribe that first lived in the mountains of Pindos then moved towards the lands of river Haliakmon and in some unknown time towards the valley of river Axios.
The first contact between the Macedonians and other Greeks (those of Chalcidice) occurred at the end of the 6th century BC when Amyntas I, father of Alexander I, conquered Anthemounta in Chalcidice. This contact terminates the isolationism of the Macedonian State and signifies a new era of participation in the events taking place in the Hellenic world by forging alliances with various city-states, becoming an enemy of other ones, and switching sides, as fit to the interests of the State.
There are some people who advocate the thesis that the Macedonians were not Greek. An English archaeologist, St. Casson, observed that it was difficult to give a definition of what could be considered 'Hellenic'. If one, according to him, included in such a definition everything found north or south of the Corinth's bay (in Peloponnesos, Southern Greece) between the 10th and 8th century BC, then Macedonia should be considered greek. The people, according to Casson, living in Macedonia were using the same jewels with those living in Sparta, Olympia, Delphi, Aegina, and Argos. This at least proves the close relations of the people living in these areas in the first centuries of the 1st millennium BC.
The recent excavations in Vergina confirm the conclusions of Casson for the remaining centuries.
Q5) What were the relations of Macedonia with the other two Greek Kingdoms of Thessaly and Epeiros?
Epeiros, Macedonia and Thessaly were all inhabited by Greek tribes. Epeiros, Macedonia and Thessaly had more in common than any other Greek state. All three were kingdoms [monarchies], a form of government highly disliked by the Greeks in the South [Sparta being a sole exception had two kings]. For Epeiros and Macedonia monarchy was the result of the pastoral life which forced people to live in areas surrounded by mountains and be isolated from the other Greeks.
Despite references by Thucydides that the Epeirotians were not Greek, excavations in Epeiros in the 1950s proved such claims of Thucydides to be totally untrue, since it can now be proved that Molossians, Athamanians, Chaones and Thesprotians and other people living in Epeiros [known collectively as Epeirotians] were Greek, speaking Greek and writing in Greek throughout the lifetime of Thucydides and even before that according to the archaeological evidence found so far.
Ancient Greeks (Iliad P.234) believed that Dodoni in Epeiros was the center of the Hellenic world and that the names Hellas and Hellenes were first given to the people of Epeiros also called Graecoi, the root of the English word 'Greek'. For more details we refer to Aristotle's Meteorologica 352a, 34.
Macedonians were in close contacts with both the Thessalians and the Epeirotians. Marriages among the members of the royal families of the three kingdoms were common. Olympias, mother of Alexander the Great, was a Molossian princess. Molossians believed that the founder of their tribe was Neoptolemos son of Homeric Achilles. Macedonians and Epeirotians were many times allies in wars against their common enemy, the Illyrians. Diodoros (XV 13) mentioned that in a single battle following an Illyrian invasion of Macedonia 15,000 Epeirotians were killed, a quite high number, by the Greek standards of that time.
Q6) What were the relations between the Macedonians and the Illyrians?
The Illyrians were Indo-Europeans and used to live in nowadays Albania and the western-northwestern part of the Republic of Skopje. They were not a greek tribe. Nowadays Albanians can be considered descendants of the ancient Illyrians although many other people lived in Illyria in various times (such as Greeks, Latins, Germans, Slavs, and Turks). The modern Albanian language seems to have greek elements but these elements were most probably introduced in the older Illyrian language during the Hellenistic and roman periods and later, in the Byzantine times, when Illyrians appeared to be speaking Greek.
Various authors have supported the thesis that Illyrians and Macedonians belonged to the same (non-greek) tribe and spoke the same (non-greek) language. Given that it has been proved beyond any reasonable doubt (see following questions) that the language spoken by ancient Macedonians was a greek dialect such claims are not true. An ancient writer Polyvios (XXVII 8,9) wrote that Macedonians were using translators in their contacts with the Illyrians, which implies that they were not speaking the same language.
Illyrians used to live up to the Hellenistic and roman years a primitive life raiding neighboring areas. Raids by Illyrians, whenever they were able to cross the mountain passes, in Macedonia and Epeiros were frequent [See also Question 5]. In the early 4th century BC, when the succession to the Macedonian throne was problematic Illyrians invaded Macedonia and occupied most of the lands of the Macedonian State. They were driven out of the State only with the combined efforts of Macedonians, Epeirotians, Thessalians and the settlers of Chalcidici.
Q7)What was the Macedonian form of government?
It was mentioned in a previous question that the Macedonian State was a kingdom. The form of government reminded that found in Iliad and Odyssey. The rule of the Macedonian king was not absolute and his 'hetairoi', as the Macedonian soldiers were called, were consulting the king sometimes quite vociferously. It was not uncommon even for Alexander the Great to have to convince his Macedonian soldiers for his future actions and to request their approval. The institution of 'hetairoi' had its roots in Homer (Iliad D 204, 532, E 663, Z 170,260) where the Myrmidon soldiers of Achilles were called so.
Q8) What did ancient Greek writers write about Macedonia?
Aeschylus (Iketidai, 250) and Herodotus (V 22) believed that Macedonians were Dorian Greeks. Herodotus claimed that the Macedonians (called at that time Makednoi) who moved to Peloponnesos from Doris were later called Dorians.
[The English translation of the works by Herodotus we use is due to A. D. Godley and published by Harvard University Press in the US, and Willian Heineman Ltd in Great Britain as part of the Loeb Classical Library]
In Herodotus Book I, 56 (page 53) it is mentioned
"These races, Ionian and Dorian, were the foremost in ancient time, the first a Pelasgian and the second an Hellenic people. The Pelasgian stock has never yet left its habitation, the Hellenic has wandered often and afar. For in the days of king Deucalion it inhabited the land of Phthia, then in the time of Dorus son of Hellen the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus; driven by the Cadmeans from this Histiaean country it settled about Pindus in the parts called Macednian; thence again it migrated to Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia to Peloponnesos, where it took the name of Dorian".
Elsewhere, VIII-43 (referring to the naval battle in Salamis) Herodotus wrote
"The Peloponnesians that were with the fleet were, firstly, the Lacedaemonians, with sixteen ships, and the Corinthians with the same number of ships as at Atemisium; the Sicyonians furnished fifteen, the Epidaurians ten, the Troezinians five, the people of Hermione three; all these, except the people of Hermione were of Dorian and Macedonian stock, and had last come from Erineus and Pindus and the Dryopian region. The people of Hermione are Dryopians, driven by Hercules and the Malians from the country now called Doris.".
In another passage Herodotus described how the Macedonian state had been founded (VIII,136-138).
There is one passage in Thucydides that descries the Molossians and other Epeirotian tribes among the 'barbarians'. It was proved following the excavations in Epeiros in 1950-1960 that the Molossians and other Epeirotian tribes were Greek, speaking Greek, and writing in Greek well before Thucydides' time. Thus Thucydides was wrong for these tribes. He was also wrong if he claimed, as some translators allege, that Macedonians had not been a greek tribe. Thucydides had also accused the Eurytanes, another Greek tribe, of being barbarians for their bad and improper use of the greek language and their aboriginal customs. The misinterpreted passage of Thucydides is given below. In Thucydides IV,124,1 (Loeb edition by C.F. Smith) the following passage appeared. "The total Hellenic force was about three thousand; the cavalry that went with them, Macedonians and Chalcidians, were all told a little less than one thousand, and there was besides a great multitude of barbarians".
[In Gk: "MAKEDONVN JYN XALKIDEYSIN OLIGVN ES XILIOYS, KAI ALLOS OMILOS TVN BARBARVN POLYS"]
This passage is sometimes misinterpreted so that Macedonians and Chalcidians for that matter appear to be considered barbarians by Thucydides. That this is not so can follow from an analysis of this passage. First, no one ever considered the Chalcidians, whose number is added to that of Macedonians, barbarians. Second, Thucydides distinguishes Macedonians and Chalcidians on the one hand and barbarians on the other by using the adjective few (Gk: OLIGVN) for the former and many for the latter (Gk
OLY). These two adjective clearly indicate a contradistinction.
Euripides lived many years and died in Macedonia. Many of his tragedies were written and played while he was in Macedonia. This would have been impossible, had the Macedonians been 'barbarians' (non-Greek). This is because in one of these tragedies, 'Iphigeneia in Aulis', the Greek superiority over the barbarians is emphasized. The following epigram in memory of Euripides which is attributed by some authors to Thucydides may give us more light to the actual beliefs of the people of that time (and possibly Thucydides)
"MNHMA MEN ELLAS APAS' EYRIPIDOU, OSTEA D' ISXEI GH MAKEDVN, H GAR DEJATO TERMA BIOU".
In brief, Macedonia, the land that holds the bones of Euripides is considered part of Greece.
Polyvios (VII 11,4, V 103,9, XVIII, XXXiV 7,13 , VII 9,1 IX 37,7) clearly stated his belief that Macedonia was greek, part of Greece, and considered Achaeans and Macedonians of the same race. The same beliefs were shared by Strabo as well as Titus Livius, to name a few other writers. It is also interesting to note that Polyvios describing the Balkan Peninsula he says that it includes Greece, Illyria and Thrace. One can thus deduce that he includes Macedonia in Greece. Had he not done so, he could have listed her separately.
Plutarchos(Flam. XI) describes Titus Contus Flamininus during the Isthmia celebrations claimed that Macedonia prevented barbarian attacks against Southern Greece.
Arrhianos' work is full of references to "Macedonia and the other Greece".
Q9) "Hellas" and "Macedonia". When was the first time that the word Hellas was used to describe the country inhabited by people belonging to Hellenic (greek) tribes?
Although the words Hellas and Hellen (and the other two English equivalents Greece and Greek) have been used to describe the country and the people of modern day Greece, their use in ancient times differed in various periods of time.
The usage of these words to describe the various Hellenic tribes as a whole was unknown to the people of the Homeric poems. In Iliad, the words Hellen (Gk: ELLHN) and Hellas (Gk: ELLAS) defined a small greek tribe and the land inhabited by them in Thessaly. (Iliad B' 683)
"OI T' EIXON FUIHN HD' ELLADA KALLIGYNAIKA, MYRMIDONES DE KALEYNTO KAI ELLHNES KAI AXAIOI".
At some earlier line (B' 530) there is a reference to the word "PANELLHNVN". This word since the time of Aristarchos has been considered to be absent in the original poem and was added at some later time.
Plutarchos (Lykourgos 6) wrote about the message brought from Delphoi to Sparta by Lykourgos "DIOS (S)ELLANIOU KAI AUHNAS (S)ELLANIAS IERON IDRYSAMENON...". Because of this reference, it is believed that the words "Hellas" and "Hellen" became more widely used after the dispersion of the Dorians. It is also possible that they were sacred words possibly related to the (S)elles priests of the Dodonian Zeus.
[the parenthesized (S) is to mean that the S say in the word SELLANIOY was later dropped from use thus giving ELLANIOY.]
The words Hellas and Hellen became more widely used some time in the 8-7th century BC and in the 5th century BC we find the first references of them to describe the lands and the Greek people living south of river Peneios. In the 4th century BC and later they were also used to describe the various Hellenic (greek) tribes as a whole. The passage from Herodotus (I,56), mentioned in a previous Question indicated another use of these words, that of distinguishing Ionian Greeks from Dorian Greek.
Since the Macedonians were pretty much isolated from the Greeks of Southern Greece up to the early 5th century BC, the words 'Hellas' and 'Hellen' were not used by them to describe collectively the lands of various Hellenic tribes, as this was also true for all the other greek tribes until the 8-7th century BC.
Hence when the Macedonians initiated contacts with other Greek tribes they continued to use the word 'Macedonian' to describe themselves instead of the collective 'Hellen(es)'. This is the reason various authors (such as Isocrates, Philippos 154) use the term "Hellenes" and "Macedonians" on the one hand and 'barbarians" on the other to distinguish the greek tribes (of Macedonians and other Hellenes) from the non-greek ones (barbarians).
The intellectual Athenians of the 4th century gave yet another definition for the word "Hellen" (Isocrates, Panegyrikos 50), that of the person having an Athenian educational background, "... the name 'Hellenes' suggests no longer the people but an intelligence, and that the title 'Hellenes' is applied rather to those who share our [note: the 'our' refers to the Athenians] culture than to those who share a common blood".
It is also believed (N.G.L. Hammond,page 6) that the distinction made by authors of Macedonians and Hellenes differentiates only the descendants of Hellen from the descendants of Thyia, as in the genealogy provided by Hesiod. According to Hesiod, Deucalion had a son Hellen and a daughter Thyia. The ancestors of Hellen were Dorus, Xouthus (whose son was Ion) and Aeolus. Thyia had two sons Magnes and Macedon. According to Hellanikos on the other hand, Macedon was a son of Aeolus.
Q10) Was the Macedonian tongue a greek dialect or not?
Yes it was a greek (Doric) dialect.
We shall break this discussion into two parts. The first one consists of evidence found prior to the excavations in Vergina by the late Professor Manolis Andronikos. The second one consists of evidence found mainly since then. This evidence leads beyond any doubt to the conclusion that the Macedonians spoke a greek dialect which was basically a Doric one, it borrowed words and was influenced by the Aeolic dialect spoken by the Thessalians neighbors of Macedonians, and also borrowed few words of Phrygic and Illyrian origin.
The Thessalians (Aeolic) influence convinced some researchers that the genealogy of Makedon given by Hellanikos (see Question 3) was more accurate than that given by Hesiodos.
In the volume "Macedonia: 4000 years of Greek history and civilization" Professor M. Sakellariou examined the words known to be unique in the Macedonian dialect of greek and related their root to the roots of words of other Greek dialects. Summarizing, many of the words that were previously considered of non-Greek origin were also in (rare) use in other parts of Greece.
There have been made various claims that the Macedonians up to some time in the 4th century BC used to speak a non-Greek language and at that time (around 340BC) were 'hellenized' by the Athenians and thus learned how to speak the attic dialect. These claims can be easily proved to be totally false even if one uses only pre-Vergina evidence.
Below we present various views on the topic.
Pre-Vergina evidence.
Fr. Sturz (in "De Dialecto Macedonica et Alexandrina", 1808) concluded that the Macedonian tongue was a greek Doric dialect. August Flick, O. Hoffmann, Otto Abel, and Karl Belloch, as well as George Busolt, Fritz Geyer, Ulrich Wilcken, Helmuth Berve, Gustave Glotz, P. Roussel, P Pouquet, A Jarde, R Cohen, J. Bury, St. Casson, W. Heurtley, D. Hogarth, J. de Waele, just to name a few (non-Greek) historians and archaeologists, shared the same views.
On the other hand, there were some historians and writers such as M. Vasmer (Revue du ministere d' instruction publique de Russie, 1908), P Kretschmer and Bulgarians G. Kazarow and Vlad. Georgiev that rejected this thesis. Georgiev attempted to show that Macedonians were member of a Thracoillyrian nation thus speaking Illyrian, a non-greek language. That this was not the case was shown in Question 6. G Weigand also shared the opinions of these authors. G. Hatzidakes rejected these theses in various texts and among them in "Zur Abstammung der alten Makedonier (eine ethnologische Studie)". For more details we refer to Daskalakis (page 104).
Coins found in Macedonia have inscriptions in greek and are dated from the early 5th BC century. Such found coins are the following ones.
An octadrachm of Alexander I (circa 478BC).
Coins from the reign of Archelaos (413-399BC) and Amyntas III (393-370BC).
the ring of Sindos with the word Gk:'DVRON' (Gift) dated around 480BC.
These coins are dated well before 340BC, the time of the alleged "hellenization" of Macedonians.
Macedonians had their own month names. If one accepts the thesis that Macedonian were 'hellenized' by the Athenians some time around 340BC hen one can safely assume that these names must be identical to those used by the Athenians. If not, they would show the linguistic roots of the Macedonians prior to their alleged who claimed that Dorians and Macedonians belonged to the same tribe (Herodotus claimed that the Macedonians who descended to southern Greece after crossing Doris became known as Dorians) and thus Macedonians were a Greek tribe, the month names of Macedonians were Greek and were different from the ones used by the Athenians. The list of these names used by the Macedonians and the list of month names of the Lacedaemonians (who were Dorians) have a common intersection, the names Artemisios and Apellaios.
Persians when first occupied Macedonia during their conquests in Europe around 510-480BC described the people living in Macedonia as "The Greeks wearing a shield-like hat" and who were non other than the Macedonians themselves. This incident occurred long before the alleged "hellenization" of Macedonians.
It is believed that the worship of the 12 Olympian Gods had started in Macedonia (as related to their place of "residence". Mountain Olympus is located in Pieria and both these names are Greek. It is claimed the magnificent view of Mt. Olympus when viewed from Macedonia, while its view from the south (Thessaly) is hindered by other mountains, inspired the Macedonians and from the other Greeks to consider this mountain the residence of their Gods.
Athenian comedies used to make fun of the idioms and the dialects of other Greeks like those of Spartans, Boeoteans and of course Macedonians. Some time in the 5th century BC a comedy entitled "Pausanias or Macedonians?" written by the Athenian Strattis was played in Athens. In various parts of this comedy a Macedonian explains how various words of the attic dialect are called in the Macedonian dialect.
It can be inferred from these references that Macedonians spoke a Doric Greek dialect. In a work of the ancient writer Athenaios, one can find samples of the work of Strattis. In an article written by A. Koerte quoting Athenaios VII,323b we can find in that comedy of Strattis the following conversation:
"STRATTIS GOYN EN MAKEDOSIN EROMENOU TINOS ATTIKOY VS AGNOOYNTOS TO ONOMA KAI LEGONTOS: H SFYRAINA D' ESTI TIS;" FHSIN O ETEROS " KESTRAN MEN YMMES VTTIKOI KIKLHSKETE".
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