Forum-Sicherheitspolitik

Erich schrieb:¶¦Ê¢ÂÛ̳ ¾üÊÂÌìµØ ÖØнØÁËһЩº£É½Ó¥µÄͼ~¶àP~~
Ich werde langsam alt und blind - ist da ein Haken am Vogel?

Ich würde sagen: ja.

dürfte die Carrier-Trainer Version der JL-9 sein

tatsächlich nimmt die Varjag immer mehr Gestalt an
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/posts/3893163.shtml">http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/po ... 3163.shtml</a><!-- m --> (Video)
inzwischen wird - anscheinend - das Flugdeck langsam geräumt
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/posts/3893178.shtml">http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/po ... 3178.shtml</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:Varyag photos (June 11, 2011 from Dalian)

(die Typen mit den dunklen Drillich-Anzügen und weißen Helmen sind von der PLAN, die scheinen langsam das Schiff zu übernehmen)

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htnavai/articles/20110609.aspx">http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htnava ... 10609.aspx</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:Shi Lang Is Official And Armed

June 9, 2011: In the last few months, the new Chinese aircraft carrier, the Shi Lang (formerly Varyag) has apparently had all of its weapons installed. The government has also officially admitted that the Shi Lang actually exists. Meanwhile, numerous unofficial photos have appeared showing the two main weapon systems that have been installed. Along each side of the ship are, first (near the bow, or front of the vessel) an 18 cell launcher for FL-3000N anti-missile missiles. Aft (rear of the ship), there is another FL-3000N. Right behind that is an AK-1030 automatic cannon. This gives the Shi Lang four FL-3000N and two AK-1030 systems. There may also be four more gun or missile systems amidships (in the middle), two on each side. But no one has gotten a clear photo of these yet. These might be the smaller AK-630.
....

hatte ich das nicht schon verlinkt?
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsxPMbaoq-o">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsxPMbaoq-o</a><!-- m --> (das pathetische bumm bumm bumm und gerülpse auf dem Video kann man ja ausschalten)
im Vergleich zu heute <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/posts/3893467.shtml">http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/po ... 3467.shtml</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://top81.jschina.com.cn/top81bbs/thread.php?cid=1&rootid=3110653&id=3110653">http://top81.jschina.com.cn/top81bbs/th ... id=3110653</a><!-- m -->
(die Baustelle auf dem Flugdeck wird geräumt)

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://globalnation.inquirer.net/4583/first-china-aircraft-carrier-sea-trial-next-week">http://globalnation.inquirer.net/4583/f ... -next-week</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:First China aircraft carrier sea trial ‘next week’
Agence France-Presse
6:01 pm | Tuesday, June 21st, 2011
....

Hab mich schon gefragt wann sie den Kahn mal zum Test tuckern lassen. Bin gespannt.

unter der Überschrift

Zitat: China Warns Vietnam of Possible Military Response in South China Sea

wurde am 21. Juni u.a. geschrieben <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia/east-pacific/China-Warns-Vietnam-of-Possible-Military-Response-in-South-China-Sea--124275629.html">http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asi ... 75629.html</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:...
The editorial comes as the Hong Kong Commercial Daily newspaper reports that Beijing has moved up the start date for sea trials of a new aircraft carrier to July 1 because of the rising tensions. The report says the carrier, a refurbished Russian vessel, will not be officially launched until October 2012. The Chinese military has not confirmed the sea trials.
....

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.marineforum.info/html/daily_news.html">http://www.marineforum.info/html/daily_news.html</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:...
30 June

....

CHINA
Local media report sea trials of aircraft carrier VARYAG “postponed to August”.
(rmks: I still doubt they were ever planned for 01 July)
...

heute wurde die neue Nr. 88 - offensichtlich als "Hotelschiff" für die Crew - vor die Varjag an die Pier gelegt, anscheinend beginnt die PLAN, die Varjag zu bemannen

während die Varjag in Dalian die letzten Tage an der Ausrüstungspier verbringt - noch sind etwa nicht alle Container vom Flugdeck geräumt - gibt es wilde Spekulationen (erneut) über den ersten chinesischen Eigenbau:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/09/3758751/china-starts-construction-at-home.html#storylink=misearch">http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/09/375875 ... k=misearch</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:China starts construction at home of aircraft carrier

The Yomiuri Shimbun
Published: Saturday, Jul. 9, 2011 - 1:00 am
Last Modified: Saturday, Jul. 9, 2011 - 6:18 pm

TOKYO -- China has started construction of its first domestically made aircraft carrier, according to diplomatic and U.S. government sources.
...

Read more: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/09/3758751/china-starts-construction-at-home.html#ixzz1Ritz6zTS">http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/09/375875 ... z1Ritz6zTS</a><!-- m -->

Tatsächlich deutet ein Umbau auf dem "Varjag-Modell" in Wuhan darauf hin, dass die Varjag entweder modifiziert wird (unwahrscheinlich, nachdem sie noch nicht mal fertig wurde) oder aber eine zweite "modifizierte" Varjag auf Kiel gelegt wird.
Allerdings halte ich die Varjag nach wie vor nicht für ein "optimales Modell". Die "Sprung-Schance" am Bug ist eine Hilfskrüge, um ein Flugzeug in die Luft zu kriegen (und das ist soweit ich weiß nicht voll munitioniert und betankt möglich).
Wesentlich effektiver sind Katapulte, die vom Schiff aus das Flugzeug mit zusätzlichem Schub unterstützen.
Daher wäre ein Katapult (und sei es "nur" auf dem Winkeldeck) eine deutliche Verbesserung.
Ein Träger "Varjag - Style" kann trotz der Tonnage nur bedingt genutzt werden. Über die Alternativen haben wir ja hier im Forum schon des öfteren Diskutiert. Die Zeit wird zeigen, was sich chinesische Ingenieure dazu ausdenken.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.marineforum.info/html/daily_news.html">http://www.marineforum.info/html/daily_news.html</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:...
09 July

CHINA
Japanese media claims China has started construction of its first domestically made aircraft carrier … referring to “diplomatic and US government sources”.
(rmks: rather speculative)
...

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-07/12/content_12881089.htm">http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011 ... 881089.htm</a><!-- m -->

Zitat: Official confirms
China building aircraft carrier
Updated: 2011-07-12 07:39
By Hu Yinan, Li Xiaokun and Cui Haipei (China Daily)

BEIJING - A top military official on Monday confirmed for the first time in public that China is building an aircraft carrier.

"I have nothing more to say about Chinese aircraft carriers, since prominent media outlets have already reported on them so much," said Chen Bingde, chief of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) General Staff. "Our American friends all know that China bought an old aircraft carrier, the Varyag, from Ukraine. It's very valuable for us to research these things this way."
...

Hong Yuan, chief of the Center for Arms Control and Nonproliferation Studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, previously said there will be "a prolonged process" before the Varyag can be even remotely effective.

The 67,500-ton Varyag is considerably smaller than the Japan-based US carrier George Washington, which has a displacement of more than 100,000 tons. But when it goes into service, it will make China one of four countries besides the US, France and Russia to have an operational carrier with a displacement of 50,000 tons or more.

The Varyag was bought from Ukraine for $20 million in 1998. According to reports, it has been undergoing refitting work at a shipyard in the northeastern coastal city of Dalian since 2005.

"This has been a gigantic project and is virtually as complicated as building a brand-new aircraft carrier," an unidentified source with the military industry in Dalian was quoted as saying by the Kanwa Asian Defense magazine.

Just as the news came out that the Varyag will begin initial sea trials probably either late this month, in early August or later in the year, rumors arose saying that another aircraft carrier is being built in Shanghai.

In earlier June, the Hong Kong Commercial Daily quoted Chen as saying - during his flight to the US - that the construction of at least one aircraft carrier is "under way, and not finished yet".
....

The steam-powered Varyag is expected to serve primarily as a training vessel for pilots and deck crews. Speculation over what is going to be stationed on it has become more rampant in recent times. According to online leaks, the vehicles it carries may include the J-15 fighter, the JT-9 naval trainer and the Z-8 helicopter.

It is uncertain when the Varyag will be made operational and where it will be based.

auf der Varjag werden inzwischen Rettungsgeräte wie Rettungsflöße installiert. Da solche Dinge im Hafen nicht benötigt werden, dürfte die erste Werfterprobungsfahrt kurz bevor stehen.
Ergänzend <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.rian.ru/opinion/20110713/165169590.html">http://en.rian.ru/opinion/20110713/165169590.html</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:Smiles in Beijing and aircraft carriers in southern seas

12:24 13/07/2011
RIA Novosti political commentator Dmitry Kosyrev

The Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, has virtually completed his four-day visit to China that started on July 10. He will visit Chinese military installations in Shandong and Zhejiang, but the political portion of the trip is over, and China has little reason to be happy about the visit.
...

Today, China does not have a fleet of aircraft carriers like the United States. This year, it will launch the aircraft carrier Shi Lang - formerly, the Soviet Varyag, which the Ukrainians sold to Beijing as scrap. China will commission two similar ships and two nuclear-powered aircraft carriers between 2015 and 2020 - exactly the timeframe in which the Chinese economy is expected to overtake the U.S., should nothing go wrong. They will be deployed in the southern seas, including the Indian Ocean.

Meanwhile, as long as the United States maintains its edge in the Pacific, it will take full advantage of it, no matter what Mullen may have negotiated in Beijing.

The views expressed in this article are the author's and may not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.

"neueste" Gerüchte - aber von einer eher seriöseren Quelle (ob die auch nur chin. Internet und Fan-Post lesen?)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/27/us-china-carrier-idUSTRE76Q1X120110727">http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/ ... X120110727</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:China boosts naval power with carrier program: sources

By Ben Blanchard and Benjamin Lim

BEIJING | Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:41pm EDT

BEIJING (Reuters) - China is building two aircraft carriers as part of a military modernization program that is causing concern among other Asian countries, sources said on Wednesday.
...

und zur Ergänzung noch eine offiziöse Meldung
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/2011-07/27/content_4608976.htm">http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channel ... 608976.htm</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:China refitting aircraft carrier body for research, training

(Source: Xinhua) 2011-07-27

Spokesman of China's Defense Ministry Geng Yansheng speaks on a press conference in Beijing, capital of China, July 27, 2011. China's Defense Ministry said on Wednesday that the country is making use of an imported aircraft carrier body for refitting to be used for scientific research, experiment and training. (Xinhua/Li Gang)

　　BEIJING, July 27 (Xinhua)
....

ähnlich <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110727/china-rebuilt-aircraft-carrier-research-110727/">http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 ... ch-110727/</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:China says rebuilt aircraft carrier for research

The Associated Press

Date: Wednesday Jul. 27, 2011 6:50 AM ET

BEIJING — China officially acknowledged Wednesday that it is rebuilding an aircraft carrier bought more than a decade ago, but says the refurbished ship will be used only for research and training -- a strong indication it plans to build carriers of its own.
...

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2011-07/27/content_4608858.htm">http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channel ... 608858.htm</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:In pictures: aircraft carrier body refitted for research, training

(Source: Xinhua) 2011-07-27
...

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2011-07/28/content_4611196.htm">http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channel ... 611196.htm</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:With or without aircraft carrier, China pursues peaceful development

(Source: Xinhua) 2011-07-28
...

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2011-07/28/content_4612913.htm">http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channel ... 612913.htm</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:PLA Daily commentator: China’s aircraft carrier program represents active move of peaceful development

(Source: PLA Daily) 2011-07-28
...

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/pla-daily-commentary/2011-07/29/content_4613852.htm">http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channel ... 613852.htm</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:Aircraft carrier reasonable for China's peaceful development: newspaper

(Source: Xinhua) 2011-07-29
...

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.marineforum.info/html/daily_news.html">http://www.marineforum.info/html/daily_news.html</a><!-- m -->

Zitat:...
28 July

CHINA
Nearly daily official statements on the usefulness of aircraft carriers “for peace and stability” suggest start of VARYAG sea trials imminent
...

no ja, bei der medialen Wegbereitung und nachdem inzwischen die Decksmarkierungen angebracht sind und das Deck scheinbar innerhalb weniger Stunden total klar sein dürfte, sowie auch Nachts gewerkelt wird .... da kann sogar ich auf eine baldige Werfterprobung spekulieren .... :wink: